Topic: Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus (Read 208 times)
Taipan Administrator Forum Member no. 3 member is offline
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Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus « Thread Started on Mar 7, 2010, 9:52pm »
Deinonychus antirrhopus Based on the largest known specimens, Deinonychus could reach 3.4 meters (11.1 ft), with a maximum skull length of 410 mm (16.4 in), a hip height of 0.87 meters (2.85 ft), a maximum weight of 73 kilograms (161 lb). Its skull was equipped with powerful jaws lined with around sixty curved, blade-like teeth. Studies of the skull have progressed a great deal over the decades. Ostrom reconstructed the partial, imperfectly preserved, skulls that he had as triangular, broad, and fairly similar to Allosaurus. Additional Deinonychus skull material and closely related species found with good 3D preservation show that the palate was more vaulted than Ostrom thought, making the snout far narrower, while the jugals flared broadly, giving greater stereoscopic vision. The skull of Deinonychus was different from that of Velociraptor, however, in that it had a more robust skull roof like that of Dromaeosaurus, and did not have the depressed nasals of Velociraptor. Both the skull and the lower jaw had fenestrae (skull openings) which reduced the weight of the skull. In Deinonychus, the antorbital fenestra, a skull opening between the eye and nostril, was particularly large.
Quetzalcoatlus northropi Quetzalcoatlus (named for the Aztec feathered serpent god Quetzalcoatl) was a pterodactyloid pterosaur known from the Late Cretaceous of North America (Campanian–Maastrichtian stages, 84–65 ma), and one of the largest known flying animals of all time. It was a member of the Azhdarchidae, a family of advanced toothless pterosaurs with unusually long, stiffened necks. There have been suggestions that the largest Quetzalcoatlus specimens represent an upper biological limit for flight.[citation needed] The largest remains indicate an individual with a wingspan as large as 12 m (40 ft), though more recent estimates based on greater knowledge of azhdarchid proportions place its wingspan at 10-11 meters (33-36 ft). However, similar claims to an upper size limit for flight accompanied the discovery of large (up to 9 m (30 ft)) Pteranodon, and azhdarchids larger than Quetzalcoatlus with wingspans 12 meters or more (such as Hatzegopteryx) have been discovered. A 2002 study suggested a body mass of 90–120 kilograms (200–260 lb) for Quetzalcoatlus, considerably lower than most other recent estimates. Higher estimates tend toward 200–250 kilograms (440–550 lb).
Cannidae Kleptoparasite Forum Member No. 150 member is offline
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Re: Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus « Reply #1 on Mar 9, 2010, 12:35pm »
I vote for Deinonychus. Even though Quetzalcoatlus was alot larger, it looks clumsy so it would be at an disadvantage on the ground. From the air I doubt it would be able to excute a killing swoop based off its structure.
I vote for Deinonychus. Even though Quetzalcoatlus was alot larger, it looks clumsy so it would be at an disadvantage on the ground. From the air I doubt it would be able to excute a killing swoop based off its structure.
I tend to agee. The key point is how efffectively that Quetzalcoatus could use its toothless beak as a weapon.
Dinocrocuta Kleptoparasite Forum Member No. 137 member is offline
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Re: Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus « Reply #3 on Mar 10, 2010, 10:42am »
I think these dromaeosaurs are rather over-rated in many situations. This would be sort of like a leopard trying to take down a giraffe (which is remotely possible, but highly unlikely to happen, even though there is video of a lioness taking down a giraffe, but that lioness also had the backing of a pride that were able to maybe chase down and then surround the giraffe - hard to say there as we don't see how the whole thing began, either way it's an unusual circumstance).
The deinonychus would be shorter than the man in the size scale drawing of the quetz and the giraffe, coming up to the man's waist at its hips based on the given sizes.
I think what would happen, if the deinonychus decided to attack at all, would be that (if the quetz couldn't take off and fly away, which probably would try to do, especially since raptors are pack hunters) the quetz would try to stab the raptor with its beak or bash it with its head. It seems it would be able to swing that long neck and head with a decent amount of force, as modern day herons can cause injury to other smaller animals with their beaks. It may also have been able to fling out its wings (as do many modern birds in defense; I don't know how true they are but I have heard stories of large birds like swans seriously injuring people with blows from their wings, even breaking bones) and land a blow.
I think it would end up in some kind of stand-off - the raptor dodging the pecks and blows of the pterosaur until it gave up and the pterosaur flew off. However, the other options are that quetz hits the raptor with its head, beak or wing and causes a minor or serious injury, or the raptor somehow gets thru the defenses and tears some gashes in the pterosaur's wing membranes (the biggest target for an initial attack).
I either see the raptor getting driven off (or rarely) killed by a blow, or that it causes some injury to the pterosaur (maybe being injured in the process itself) but can't make the kill and gives up. Then, if quetz is injured to the point that it can't fly, deinonychus comes back with the rest of its pack and finishes the job or another, larger predator comes along and kills the pterosaur. The only way I can see a full out single-handed kill by a single deinonychus on a quetz is by ambush.
I vote for Deinonychus. Even though Quetzalcoatlus was alot larger, it looks clumsy so it would be at an disadvantage on the ground. From the air I doubt it would be able to excute a killing swoop based off its structure.
The pterosaur is a little too big (more than twice the size). The raptor does have the weaponary to kill prey several times larger than itself, the only trick would be to dodge that huge beak and the pterosaur might be able to use its wings for intimidation.
[I tend to agee. The key point is how efffectively that Quetzalcoatus could use its toothless beak as a weapon.
Marabao storks are capable of using their toothless beaks to keep jackals at bay and even grab white-backed vultures on the head until they drop their morsel. Judging from that, the pterosaur might be capable of injuring the raptor with a well placed stab.
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Re: Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus « Reply #5 on Mar 11, 2010, 8:25pm »
I'm siding with Quetzalcoatlus here. I think it is just way too big for the Deinonychus to take down. If the deinonychus gets caught in the beak of the pterosaur, it will be in big trouble.
A fight is not won by one punch or kick. Either learn to endure or hire a bodyguard. Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life.
Cynodont Unicellular Organism Forum Member No. 193 member is offline
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Re: Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus « Reply #6 on Jun 23, 2010, 11:18am »
"especially since raptors are pack hunters"
Not all raptors are thought to be pack hunters. Deinonychus is special in that it has been found in large numbers.
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Re: Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus « Reply #7 on Jun 23, 2010, 11:55pm »
The whole Dromaeosaur pack hunting is based SOLEY on Deinonychus. "A Reevaluation of Cooperative Pack Hunting and Gregariousness in Deinonychus antirrhopus and Other Nonavian Theropod Dinosaurs" ^^ According to that paper (and i agree with it), Deinonychus was NOT a pack hunter.
On topic, Quetzacoatlus hunted on land, it hunted small prey. Deinonychus is in the size range of potential prey for Quetzalcoatlus.
The whole Dromaeosaur pack hunting is based SOLEY on Deinonychus. "A Reevaluation of Cooperative Pack Hunting and Gregariousness in Deinonychus antirrhopus and Other Nonavian Theropod Dinosaurs" ^^ According to that paper (and i agree with it), Deinonychus was NOT a pack hunter.
Spinodontosaurus Herbivore Forum Member No. 244 member is offline
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Re: Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus « Reply #9 on Jun 25, 2010, 3:11am »
Gregarious behavior is possible, i dont think the paper refuted that (if it did, certainly not to the degree of pack hunting). Gregarious though does not indicate pack hunting. What modern animals are pack hunters? Not many, and all are mammals. There is many gregarious animals, Birds and Crocodilians are gregarious.
Spinodontosaurus Herbivore Forum Member No. 244 member is offline
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Re: Deinonychus v Quetzalcoatlus « Reply #11 on Jun 25, 2010, 4:16am »
Birds do not hunt in packs, neither do Crocodilians. There is occasional teamwork in a sense, but for Birds it is only on prey they can kill by themselves anyway. (what am i supposed to do with the second link?) Besides, if the animals were in a proper group, that is social behaviour. If they hang about in loosley associated groups, thats gregarious-ness (that isnt a word, is it?). Birds and Crocs are social, but do not really cooperate in hunting, even then only some of them are social.
Birds do not hunt in packs, neither do Crocodilians. There is occasional teamwork in a sense, but for Birds it is only on prey they can kill by themselves anyway. (what am i supposed to do with the second link?)
In reference to the above quote's highlighted part, you were supposed to open it & read the article in the following link (which contradicts the above quote's non-highlighted part). However, since you asked, that must mean it doesn't work for you (the following link should, though).
Actually, the majority of crocodiles are highly gregarious and social, and only a few species are considered territorial (eg. saltwater crocodiles) or solitary (eg. dwarf caimans) - and then only as mature adults. Social behaviour is vastly underestimated in crocodilians, and definitely never get your information on crocodilian social behaviour from the Discovery Channel! A large array of different behaviours have been recorded in crocodilians, including their ability to produce a remarkable array of complex (ie. combined) signals using visual, auditory, chemical and tactile cues. Crocodilians also have a well-developed ability to learn associatively, able to recognise any combination of signals (visual, auditory, chemical, tactile) linked to events in both space and time. For example, Nile crocs will move to particular locations at particular times of year to take advantage of events (eg. migrations), and they hunt cooperatively. Pack hunting behaviour has been reported in Cuban crocodiles, and all species show complex parental care and short-term pair bonding in some. In captivity, crocodilians can be trained to respond to specific signals (ie. names) and commands. They learn such commands very quickly, sometimes after only 1 to 2 reinforcement attempts through habituation, operant or classical conditioning. Most zoological exhibits are now considering training their crocodilians for management purposes (eg. moving into a holding area when a bell sounds), and most people who work with crocs recognise their ability to take advantage of routine opportunities. This is from an animal whose brain weighs 0.005% of its body weight, although in hatchlings it starts out relatively much larger (0.9% body weight).
P.S. I highlighted the most relevant part of the Britton quote.
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